I love this version of Dunning-Kruger. However, I would suggest a minor modification changing the Child’s Hill to “graduation day”. The image should also be embossed on the back of every college graduation diploma.
I read Allison’s book (actually listened to her read it) after listening to the podcast episode. It’s heartbreaking and heart wrenching and so so well written. I know some of it is autobiographical but the story was told with such depth I felt like I was able to get to know Elizabeth as a person. I doubt I pick up the book without you interviewing her but I’m so glad I did.
That graphic is similar to James Nottingham's "The Learning Pit," which he developed from Vygotsky's zone of proximal development and illustrates the learning process for kids. But I love this overlay of how confidence/self-efficacy builds throughout that process - thanks for sharing!
The growing number of students behaving badly is a response to the growing number of adults behaving badly. We set a good example when we think AND act as if right is might, and student behave badly because they are following the example of people with more power than them who think OR act as if might is right.
Think about why students are cynical. Is it because of adults who say they believe that right is might, but then act as if might is right? You'd have to ask them, but that would be my guess.
As we should have known by listening to Aristotle, we are what we repeatedly do. Acting as if right is might is not an act, but a habit. People who act as if right is might have a good habit. They deliberately respond to conflicts of interest by engaging in a dialogue aimed at discovering what is right, and then their actions are based on that discovery.
The first time I saw that graph was in Peter Scholte's book, The Leader's Handbook: A Guide to Inspiring Your People and Managing the Daily Workflow (1998). It's a classic.
Thanks for this Adam. In my early days as a Boeing systems engineer, I quickly learned to parse discussion responses. 'I don't know' wasn't in the vocabulary of other engineers, so to this day I have a finely honed bullshit meter. Ironically, saying what you know and what you don't builds others' trust in what you say, because they know you are more likely to speak the truth.
Although I appreciate the diagram, its labels are dangerously misleading. Knowledge isn’t something only adults have, and questioning - including questions that challenge the ideas and assumptions of others - should not be a skill or trait relegated to only children. In an era in which information - both accurate and inaccurate - can be easily found online (and often summarized by AI) and students aren’t taught critical thinking, the ability to put down the “smart” tech and actually observe the world and trust one’s own instincts and inner wisdom (or intuition) is a vital one.
I also appreciated the call to pay attention to evidence. Nevertheless, I also believe it’s vital to develop intuition and the ability to know the difference between reactive emotions and the ways our bodies and emotions communicate intuition and instinctive responses to dangers that our intellectual minds may miss.
Finally, grades should indicate the goal of the educator. If the intention is to stimulate self-reflection, growth and the application of one’s knowledge of a topic (eg, ethics and abortion) to a question (eg, a case study on an exam), I believe the grade should reflect the effort put into the student’s answer, regardless of how the orator feels about the topic. (I’m taking this example from Ann honors program I wasa student, decades ago.)
Furthermore, results don’t always reflect the effort. If it’s a math problem or a chemistry experiment, then yes, the results are importance. But, a class that involves critical thinking - even comparative analysis of plays by Shakespeare with a modern playwright - requires knowledge and a willingness to question one’s own beliefs about a topic.
In addition, innovation requires knowledge, intuition, and willingness to trust those feelings you disparage earlier in your post.
P.S. Pardon the jumbled nature of my comment. It’s late, and I’m writing this on the fly.
While feelings don’t necessarily equate with concrete evidence, sometimes they are an indicator of which direction to put one’s focus or motivation.
I love the diagram! Where did you get it or did you invent it. I would love permission to use it.
Same here. Great diagram. It reminds me of the saying, "Beware the man who has read one book." I also would like permission to use it.
It's from waitbutwhy. It resonated with me deeply and reminded me of an ancient Sanskrit verse about meta-ignorance.
https://radhikaayalur.substack.com/p/lessons-on-the-learning-curve
Here's where I wrote about the connection between the wry humor of a Sanskrit poet and this chart.
It is a great diagram. Reminds me a little of a DunningKruger chart.
I love this version of Dunning-Kruger. However, I would suggest a minor modification changing the Child’s Hill to “graduation day”. The image should also be embossed on the back of every college graduation diploma.
Humility , Integrity and Curiosity :
Foundational to maturity and fruitfulness .
I read Allison’s book (actually listened to her read it) after listening to the podcast episode. It’s heartbreaking and heart wrenching and so so well written. I know some of it is autobiographical but the story was told with such depth I felt like I was able to get to know Elizabeth as a person. I doubt I pick up the book without you interviewing her but I’m so glad I did.
That graphic is similar to James Nottingham's "The Learning Pit," which he developed from Vygotsky's zone of proximal development and illustrates the learning process for kids. But I love this overlay of how confidence/self-efficacy builds throughout that process - thanks for sharing!
Thanks for reminding me how much I adore Louise Gluck and her writing.
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Knowledge and skills. Grades are dumb. Learning should be the goal.
Chhers
Thank you Adam. Reminds me of Dr. Becky Kennedy’s idea for kids/students on The Learning Space. https://www.instagram.com/share/_b_VnlcfD
The growing number of students behaving badly is a response to the growing number of adults behaving badly. We set a good example when we think AND act as if right is might, and student behave badly because they are following the example of people with more power than them who think OR act as if might is right.
Think about why students are cynical. Is it because of adults who say they believe that right is might, but then act as if might is right? You'd have to ask them, but that would be my guess.
As we should have known by listening to Aristotle, we are what we repeatedly do. Acting as if right is might is not an act, but a habit. People who act as if right is might have a good habit. They deliberately respond to conflicts of interest by engaging in a dialogue aimed at discovering what is right, and then their actions are based on that discovery.
The first time I saw that graph was in Peter Scholte's book, The Leader's Handbook: A Guide to Inspiring Your People and Managing the Daily Workflow (1998). It's a classic.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Adam,
Have you considered moving away from Substack, given the way they court hate speech content creators? Maybe to Ghost, or some self-hosted option?
Thanks
Thanks for this Adam. In my early days as a Boeing systems engineer, I quickly learned to parse discussion responses. 'I don't know' wasn't in the vocabulary of other engineers, so to this day I have a finely honed bullshit meter. Ironically, saying what you know and what you don't builds others' trust in what you say, because they know you are more likely to speak the truth.
Although I appreciate the diagram, its labels are dangerously misleading. Knowledge isn’t something only adults have, and questioning - including questions that challenge the ideas and assumptions of others - should not be a skill or trait relegated to only children. In an era in which information - both accurate and inaccurate - can be easily found online (and often summarized by AI) and students aren’t taught critical thinking, the ability to put down the “smart” tech and actually observe the world and trust one’s own instincts and inner wisdom (or intuition) is a vital one.
I also appreciated the call to pay attention to evidence. Nevertheless, I also believe it’s vital to develop intuition and the ability to know the difference between reactive emotions and the ways our bodies and emotions communicate intuition and instinctive responses to dangers that our intellectual minds may miss.
Finally, grades should indicate the goal of the educator. If the intention is to stimulate self-reflection, growth and the application of one’s knowledge of a topic (eg, ethics and abortion) to a question (eg, a case study on an exam), I believe the grade should reflect the effort put into the student’s answer, regardless of how the orator feels about the topic. (I’m taking this example from Ann honors program I wasa student, decades ago.)
Furthermore, results don’t always reflect the effort. If it’s a math problem or a chemistry experiment, then yes, the results are importance. But, a class that involves critical thinking - even comparative analysis of plays by Shakespeare with a modern playwright - requires knowledge and a willingness to question one’s own beliefs about a topic.
In addition, innovation requires knowledge, intuition, and willingness to trust those feelings you disparage earlier in your post.
P.S. Pardon the jumbled nature of my comment. It’s late, and I’m writing this on the fly.
While feelings don’t necessarily equate with concrete evidence, sometimes they are an indicator of which direction to put one’s focus or motivation.
You don’t mean me, right? I get an A for effort. It’s other people who won’t. Right?
Sorry, all I’m all in on investing in eggs.
This is content with a "punch" . . . It's not Kool Aid but I'm drinking it!